@timothygreen Thanks for writing this, Tim. Two worlds in one breath: the juxtaposition is hardly found in the poems publicized as haiku or senryu. Would you mind looking at the five haiku poems published in the Indian Literature by @sahityaakademi?

@KiritiSKiriti @sahityaakademi very clearly good haiku!

@timothygreen Actually, it's just the one breath. Juxtaposition is frequent but not necessary part.

@FNTpepper Would still love to see a haiku that works without juxtaposition.

@timothygreen I teach Japanese poetry at UC Berkeley, where I also did my dissertation on Japanese poetry with a particular emphasis on rhythm and aspects of meter. Your statement here is wrong as are many other assertions you’re making about haiku. You’re missing some fundamental things.

@RyBeville Then tell me the things. Appeal to authority is uninteresting.

@timothygreen ? From Hirsch’s “A poet’s glossary.” Honest question: wouldn’t a 5-7-5 structure be an evolution of the form, kind of like the varying rhyme schemes of a sonnet?

@SomeSweetVandal This is the factual error that started it all when haiku was brought to the west. Mora and syllables aren't equivalent. Each syllable is up to 4 mora. Any long vowel sound is 2. As a result, a 17 syllable haiku is almost twice as long as it should be, ruining the instantaneous

@timothygreen Never forget: https://www.amazon.com/Hockey-...

@jpoch Haha, fun even though false.

@timothygreen The virulence is overdone. In translations centuries later, haiku can be 5-7-5 in English. Likewise, "juxtaposition" as a requirement can be formulaic and people avoiding syllabic(s) can be innovative or sloppy. The thread discussion is interesting, kudos.

@GH_Mosson Can be, but usually those translations are too long, and syllables are never the definition of what a haiku is. Still looking for a successful haiku without juxtaposition—if you have an example, share it. I've been looking for about a decade.

@timothygreen There is such a thing as 5-7-5. How you choose to translate Japanese on to English syllables is an open debate, as is how devotedly to follow the many other traditions of the form. Why push back against the unnecessarily doctrinaire by being unnecessarily doctrinaire yourself?

@roblucastaylor It's really not up for debate. It's the worst kind of cultural appropriation to misunderstand 400 years of someone else's rich artform, and then define it solely by your misunderstanding. Let alone turn it into a 3rd grade exercise and then launch it to Mars.

@timothygreen And yet for some it has morphed into that. Things change over time. Respect the tradition, but embrace the changes?

@UnemployedGames Not when the result is garbage poetry that's an utter embarrassment to four centuries of a beautiful literary tradition.