@mitchellh well they are kind of expensive. you have to have an iphone for them. not the cheapest option around

@teej_dv I swear to god if you message me with a green bubble tj

@mitchellh Yeah, but one thing I REALLY do not want happening is all the webdevs actually trying to mimic it. It is quite expensive to do on the web as you can't do shaders there. It will be terrible for websites on mobile

@HSVSphere I don't know enough about web frontend to know how expensive it will or won't be. You need access to the screen buffer and shaders though (WebGPU). And I can't imagine it's cheap to do that from where web frontend lives in the stack. It'll be possible for sure but at what cost...

@mitchellh The awful frame rate experienced by beta users might be driving this claim, but yeah fundamentally an optimized implementation is no sweat for a GPU.

@mholt6 Yes. I’m running Tahoe daily but with a justified reason (Ghostty dev). I suspect the hitches are more app issues and debug information turned on than actual renderer optimizations. I’m sure there’s room to improve but I just think people are gaslighting the glass when every dev

@mitchellh This is true in principle, but then webdevs will do it in CSS and performance will be horrible.

@valigo_gg I should say that doing it right with access to the screen buffer and gpu shaders is cheap :) there’s many ways to do it terribly

@mitchellh I would say it's comparatively more expensive.

@suwakopro The power of a GPU is underestimated. Even if it's 10x more expensive (I don't think it is), 10x a fraction of resource usage is going to be a tiny fraction. Doing effects like this on a GPU is really, really cheap.

@mitchellh do you have any benchmarks?

@rydgel lol

@mitchellh I promise you these are the folks who turned off transparency in Windows Vista.

@_jsolly Vista was shipped in an era with significantly less GPU and into a highly heterogeneous market. Apple tightly controls their hardware chain. Gaussian blur can be comparatively more cache thrashy as well. It’s incomparable. Horses compared to F1 cars

@mitchellh They were one of the few things of Windows Visa (20 years ago) that worked really well, if you didn't have an ancient GPU.

@andi0b Vista did a simple Gaussian blue. Glass is much more impressive. But it’s also because GPUs are dramatically more capable today.

@mitchellh Depends honestly. A full screen frame buffer blur with a wide kernel is not free. Yes I'm sure it's all on the GPU so it won't be clogging up the CPU but it still draws power and reduces battery life.

@mitchellh years of mostly hardware specs updates lead to liquid glass being able to run smooth, what else was the minimal design changes and hardware upgrades for??

@mitchellh How many petawatts will be used in 2026 just to make buttons look like Liquid Crystal?

@mitchellh It’s ugly and a nightmare for readability . Any iota of resource for an ugly ux is an expense. !

@mitchellh Liquid Glass drains my battery. Not my phone or laptop, my emotional one.

@mitchellh a modern GPU is expensive

@mitchellh Letting just anyone download Beta wasn't a good move

@mitchellh Guilty as charged, I don't know how modern GPUs and animations work Battled between the parrot and the idiot, leaning on the latter I just know that any non 0 amount of work requires effort and seeing videos with lags in the UX made it quite believable https://x.com/polyMatto/status...

@mitchellh I don't want to process unnecessary animations. In my brain! I just want stuff to happen now.

@mitchellh I saw Ryan (I think?) comment that when you combine many of them it becomes a problem, I could see that being true. Other thing is that they are putting focus on this and not making it run well. Not really disagreeing with you btw, just my 2 cents

@mitchellh Multiple folks posting the technique in CSS, so I’m confused.