I have to thank @promptborzai for introducing me to the essay collection "People Love Dead Jews" by Dana Horn, because it really put the last pieces into place. The existence of growing current of "holocaust revisionism" coming from jews themselves has clarified a lot.

Oswald Spengler made the point that humans cannot escape their cultural or civilizational context; a person rebelling against Gothic architecture during the period where that dominates can only rise to doing anti-gothic gothicism; he cannot step outside the frame entirely.

What is striking about post WW2 folk belief - once you see it you literally can never unsee it again - is that it just the Christian cosmology, dressed up in humanist clothing, and presented as somehow a rebellion or negation of Christ. It is anything but.

What is the core of Christianity, what is the specific, unique aspect of the religion? It is not monotheism, but the belief in Christ: the concept of the God-Man, universalism and divinity made incarnate in the particular, earthly form.

To redeem humanity, God sends His own Son to suffer and perish as a human, and it is the blood of Christ that has the power to cleanse us all of sin. Christianity views history as a *before* and an *after*, an old covenant made redundant, a new one baptisted through sacrifice.

To borrow the phrase from Dara Horn, the Christian West has, for the last two thousand years, had a real love affair for "a dead jew". It isn't the life of Christ or the ordinary viccisitudes of 1st century Judea that matter, but the death, the sacrifice, the transcendence.

Ask any normie today, and he will likely tell you he doesn't believe in Christianity, and that he finds the entire idea of Christ's sacrifice on the cross ushering in a "before and after" to history to be ridiculous hocus pocus. But in reality, this normie cannot escape Christ.

What was the holocaust? If you ignore the details and look at this through the lens of faith and folk belief, the Holocaust was simply the crufixition of Christ, except this time re-staged in a collective, secularized form.

Who were the jews who died in the holocaust? Like Christ, they are understood *instinctively* as symbols of the universal and transcendental, who can only work as such because of their particularity. Because they are so particular, they actually teach us about "humanity".

In the "post-Christian" western cosmology, there is still a blood sacrifice, there is still a before and after. The blood of Christ is given metaphysical power to cleanse one of sin, but the blood of the victims of the holocaust cleanses us of "superstition".

Talking to my mom, and hearing her be incredibly surprised at the idea of medieval christians wanting the jews to convert (she simply assumed the problem was that Christians simply excluded jews from the faith out of some sort of "racism" or prejudice) at first made zero sense.

Again, if you know anything about Christianity, anything at all, you know that this is completely bonkers. The "beef" between Christians and jews it that the former see Christ as the Messiah and the latter refuse to accept Him. Why would a jew accepting Jesus ever be a *problem*?

But again, if you just see WW2 and the holocaust as "Anti-Christian Christianity", it makes perfect sense. In that cosmology, Christianity is just another dumb superstition, a humanist, rationalist "original sin", which is finally washed away by the blood of Anne Frank.

The same goes for the canard that jews and muslims have a "thousand year old blood feud". Again, if you know the basics of Christianity, this idea makes zero sense. The blood feud between jews and Christians *is* real; it literally began with the spilling of the blood of Christ.

Muslims have nothing similar against jews, and jews have nothing similar against muslims. But again, once you see WW2 and the holocaust as the secular, humanist staging of the Crucifixion, saying that muslims and jews have a 100000000 year old feud makes eminent sense.

They *must* have a feud, why WOULDN'T they? Muslims are still trapped in the "old testament" of humanism; they still believe in kooky superstitions, and haven't been told the Good News of liberalism, market economics, and free and fair debate.

Meanwhile, the incredibly long and bloody history of Christian-jewish conflict is just glossed over as part of an old, superceded covenant. Yes, of course Europeans didn't treat jews all that kindly, but that was strictly Old testatement stuff. It is no longer valid.

I could write much, much more on this, and eventually I will, but for now I'll simply conclude by saying that the entire post WW2 era has been an exercise in Spengler's "anti-gothic gothicism". The rebellion against Christianity could only ever succeed in this way.

We have been living in a secularized, folk religion version of basic Christianity, one that has grown in power as we've gotten farther and farther away from WW2. But that quasi-Christian folk religion is now breaking down and it won't be put back together.

The history of Israel is fascinating here. Far from immediately embracing the holocaust as a part of their national identity or messaging, the (often piecemeal) embrace of the holocaust mythos came very late, and as a reaction to developments happening among the gentiles.

To make a long story short, the Israelis saw that the west was falling in love with "dead jews" (plural) rather than "dead jew" (singular), and they increasingly ran with it. But today they are all done playing along with what is fundamentally a Christian, universalist messsage.

Dara Horn's discomfort with western holocaust narratives (casting the jews as a minority that bled and died to bring salvation and understanding and humanism to all of mankind) has now transformed into an open attempt to assert jews and Israel as unique and anti-universalist.

But again, Christianity as it existed for nearly two thousand years might have worshipped Christ, the God-Man who was born as a jew, but they did not care for *jews* as such. As Horn would put it, the love for Christ came as a result of him dying, not living.

In a similar vein, post-WW2 western society on the surface appears incredibly philosemitic, but it isn't in reality. The people who love jews do so because they see the greater universalist truth reflected in the particular and narrow.

The most anti-christian libtard who says that churches should be firebombed and replaced with trans shelters or whatever might try their whole lives to renounce Christ, but their rebellion is a circle; their denounciations only affirm their underlying belief.

What is the upshot of this, though? What happens next in the West? Well, if you look at the statistics, as the young become increasingly disillusioned with the post-WW2 consensus, they return back to Christianity. This is completely predictable, in line with Spengler.

Again, to put this harshly, as Dara Horn would, the West tried loving one dead jew who died on the cross, and then when they got tired of that, their attempt at escape involved loving millions of dead jews who died in the death camps. Finally, it's back to the singular dead jew.

There are a *lot* of conclusions one can draw from this about the future, but the basic one here is that the attempt to re-brand or re-center Israel is going to fucking fail. Israel could ONLY ever become an object of worship by a sort of cultural bayesian mimicry.

What is telling here is that completely secularized jews, like Dara Horn or many writers at Tablet magazine, so clearly look at secularized, blue haired college atheists and go "no, sorry, you're still a *Christian*". On a basic level, these people *get it*.

There is an ongoing attempt to try to get westerners to accept some sort of genuinely anti-christian view of morality, or history, or the cosmos, and all attempts just fucking fail and trigger these massive, massive disgust responses amongst the gentiles. It's all doomed.

@JucheRespecter This explains my school years where the teachers tried to get us to die for Israel but then we just moved onto being racist on Halo 3 multiplayer as youthful rebellion.

@JucheRespecter In a certain way it all comes back to the countless attempts to immanetize the eschaton in order to finally reject Christ, a collective hysteria powerful enough to drag even atheists into the fray, a contradiction. But now everything makes sense to me: https://x.com/JucheRespecter/s...

@JucheRespecter ive been thinking too. If liberalism is a religion who are the priests of this class? They are homosexuals, jews and a mish mash of black-brown minorities. Being accepted by a trans person absolves you of your sin and any black dude suffering police violence is a holy martyr.

@JucheRespecter Stellar thread. As a brown muslim 3rd worlder this just confirmed the things in my hunch from seeing the West.

@JucheRespecter @morris_que14 once made the argument that the west never really got past christianity as an influence in its entire being