@Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel But I thought you said our ancestors didn't believe in universals?

@PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel This is not a universal in a philosophical sense, because we are confining ourselves to the topic of "Indo-Europeans", and not "humanity". IE: This is a particular command handed down from our specific forefathers to us, specifically.

@Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel But how do you say that without them having the notion of universals?

@bar_phantera @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel "Universal" here is an artifact of modern language, not something inherent to the formulation. Our specific commands are particulars. Only particulars exist because there is no universal humanity. There is Us and Them. This is inherent to IE thought back to the urheimat.

@Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel Even within specifics, this wouldn't really say much about anything. Platonism doesn't aim to disregard traditions; quite the opposite, since Plato criticizes the invention of writing for these and other reasons.

@bar_phantera @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel Platonism is by its nature a religious innovation. That is the primary criticism here. Religious innovation was not permitted by our ancestors as a core function of IE religious thought and is invalid. The mere fact that Platonism is not the tradition of our forebears is enough

@Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel There clearly were religious innovations from PIE times since every branch has some differences and they were not practicing the same exact rituals. Platonic metaphysics go back to Orpheus at least. Or was that a heresy too?

@PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel Yes

@Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel This is fundamentalism and no Greek in any era would see Orphism as heresy in its daily/religious dimension.

@bar_phantera @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel You are correct, it is fundamentalism. It is the fundamentalism of our earliest ancestors “Our ancestors established laws and customs which we must follow as if they were divine commands, for nothing new should be introduced that departs from their wisdom.” — Cicero, De Legibus

@Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel Where does this conflict with Platonism, Cicero being immersed in the Stoic and Epicurean dimension?

@bar_phantera @PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel It is an obvious logical contradiction, whether Cicero and his contemporaries adequately dealt with it or not is beyond the point, that it was nevertheless the traditional standard of IE thought. We can find this also in greek, hindu and germanic thought.

@Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel Cicero wrote On the Nature of the Gods as an attempt to use reason to explain the nature of the Gods... Was he a heretic too?

@PunishedAbammon @Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @BigDaveMartel This is fascinating to read.

@ScrinkbloMan @Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @BigDaveMartel The anti-philosophy vs philosophical pagan schism lmao. Not too dissimilar to prots vs orthodox / catholics.

@PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @Tristan_Powers1 @BigDaveMartel This is not comparable. For pagans who believe in a foundation of a philosophical religion distinct from general religion are the ones who adopt presuppositions and a Christianized worldview of things. They are just disagreements, complementary or not.

@bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @Tristan_Powers1 @BigDaveMartel I don't view pagan philosophy as distinct from the general religion. I view it as the advanced or esoteric path for those that wish to be initiated into the deeper mysteries. It should be complimentary to the exoteric, not at odds with it.

@PunishedAbammon @ScrinkbloMan @Tristan_Powers1 @BigDaveMartel Esoteric and exoteric are not really separable.

@bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @Tristan_Powers1 @BigDaveMartel I know. The anti-philosophy pagans are the ones who want to separate them and claim all philosophy as heresy though.

@PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel Its not that philosophy is necessarily heresy in and of itself (the fact that im obviously well read on philosophy should evidence that), its just that most philosophy is downstream from an axial revolution in thought. Ultimate, there are things you cannot critique or explain.

@Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel "most philosophy is downstream from an axial revolution in thought" I disagree. I think IEs have always had philosophy. It's clearly present in the mythology if you know what to look for.

@PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel I would agree that there was some metaphysics and level of introspection, a rational system of understanding that pervaded their legal formalism. This evolved into philosophy when the foundational elements began to override the nature of authority.

@Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel What is the authoritative source that says reasoning beyond some certain set or interpretation of mythology is heresy?

@PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel The Entire IE substructure which regards the authority of our forefathers as authoritative and definitively final. I can't provide a full list on twitter due to word limits, but suffice there are many more than cicero's quote. I can show this also in germanic and hindu sources

@Tristan_Powers1 @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel I'm not asking for a quote saying "Trust your ancestors" like the Cicero one. I'm asking for a source that says reasoning or interpreting mythology beyond some specific limit is heresy.

@PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel No you misunderstand, interpreting mythology in a way that directly contradicts our forefathers is heresy because they are the authorities. Its not reasoning itself that is heretical, its just epistemologically impossible to to put ones authorities to the question.

@Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan @BigDaveMartel This is nothing but an appeal to tradition followed by an appeal to authority.

@EClaussen @Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan All truth claims are appeals to authority, reddit.

@BigDaveMartel @Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan Typical Big Dumb Dave response.

@EClaussen @Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan You guys keep calling us dumb but you can't seem to muster a good argument. You're not a pagan. You're not one of us. Go enjoy your obsolete philosophy ecult.

@BigDaveMartel @Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan I gave you two, and you responded with a meme and an insult. I'm open to a serious discussion, you are not.

@EClaussen @Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan Your whole squad already got their lunch eaten. I'm tired of you dorks. Go LARP greek and stop trying to police Heathens.

@BigDaveMartel @Tristan_Powers1 @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan LOL oh really, when did that happen?

@EClaussen @BigDaveMartel @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan Probably the part where I had to repeat myself 5 times because we slipped into the "pretending to have amnesia and not know how language works" part of the debate tactic, and just left.

@Tristan_Powers1 @EClaussen @PunishedAbammon @bar_phantera @ScrinkbloMan I blocked him. Weasels with how they talk.