... and following those regulations can be expensive+time-consuming. File rigid procedures, mandatory processes with lots of paperwork, and so on. Most US companies are taken aback by these requirements in European countries. So they either exit or...

... or they are big enough to hire a local fulltime site lead to deal with all this ... or they only employ via B2B contract, that is not employment (forget about things like equity, but it can still pay well) It's the reality of remote employment! Location matters v much

Yes, Cost of Employment hits US companies hard Eg when they pay someone €100K in France, the gross salary of that person (from which they pay taxes) is €75K. There's a 30-40% "cost of employer" on top of gross salary, invisible to the employee https://x.com/bbqbobs/status/1...

Yes this is a great read if you're interested in what it takes to employ in different countries as full-remote It's s LOT of work for the company hiring, which is why few companies do it outside of US + UK! https://x.com/simonw/status/19...

Rippling and Deel kind of solve for this... at a major overhead cost. And employees become employees of a local Rippling or Deel company that can add more confusion and clarity And, again, the cost of doing this surprises US startups I talk to https://x.com/EdgarCerecerez/s...

@GergelyOrosz "When a company employs someone remote in Country Y, they need to follow Country Y regulations..." Can you explain this part?

@razoorka I explained it! Anyone employed fulltime in a country needs to follow regulations in that country: from paying taxes to national holidays being off, to working hour regulations etc etc

@GergelyOrosz isn't this what Rippling, Deel, et al. are solving for? and as far as I know, even contractors in those Countries can get equity.

@EdgarCerecerez it's their promise and it kind of works, but I have yet to meet a startup who likes how this plays out it's a bandaid to the reality of how hard it is to employ in certain countries https://x.com/GergelyOrosz/sta...

@GergelyOrosz Can’t they go through consultant route? Employees lose on equity, insurance and other benefits but better pay and tax structure usually offsets it. Employers get talent and gain more than employees working remotely.

@alokparikh16 its in the thread :) https://x.com/GergelyOrosz/sta...

@GergelyOrosz Fuck your regulations, let the people work for fuck sake

@GergelyOrosz In my previous company, we had to add GNSS tracking to company laptops because of this. Some people would sign up to be remote in the UK, live in Spain and then... sue us for benefits (?!?!?!?!?).

@GergelyOrosz Thank you for enlighting this. Its horrible. I just saw your post about the employment cost in France. No one wins, its so pathetic and disgusting.

@GergelyOrosz GitLab publish their internal handbook for how they employee people in different countries around the world, it's fascinating https://handbook.gitlab.com/ha...

@GergelyOrosz It's why like 90% of top EU talent works on B2B contracts, either directly to US or through an EU subsidiary. Costs of FT employment are also astronomical. In France, for an employee to take home €100k it costs both the employee and the company at least €280k. For comparison in

@GergelyOrosz Spain is really backwards with regards to business, so much so that even as a company of one I'm considering moving my residency next year. They make everything super difficult, fine you with little to no proof, allow next to zero write-offs compared to other countries. I doubt

@GergelyOrosz Yes. Something people take for granted until they experience it first hand

@GergelyOrosz No they don’t. You spin up a business entity and transact with a company not as an employee but as an individual contractor.

@GergelyOrosz Weird, because many other companies hire in Spain. It's interesting that they just did not explain what makes it "insanely difficult" though.

@GergelyOrosz Beyond country regulations you can get into things like needing to have different suppliers setup in each country. We'd have people expect things to be just like US/UK/ EU, but then suppliers might not have credit terms or they may not support sales to that specific country

@GergelyOrosz Behold, Americans discover at will employment craziness is not so much a thing in Europe

@GergelyOrosz But what about all those companies selling employer of record services? I see so many on my feed Plus Oracle and other have massive hubs in Malaga - with special benefits in terms of hiring and taxes @rauchg

@GergelyOrosz Those regulations are in place to protect workers, from draconian CEOs.

@GergelyOrosz ...and despite that, Spain has Europe's top GDP growth, or universal (free) access to healthcare.

@GergelyOrosz Difficult to treat other countries’ workforce like Americans are used to be treated.

@GergelyOrosz I see some suggestions here to hire people as contractors. Nope, thats not as easy as you think. Some EU countries have laws which can flip such a contract under specific circumstances into a full blown employee contract, especially if you work always for one and the same company

@GergelyOrosz If a prospective employee is unwilling to go operate as a contractor, then that’s a tell-tale sign they will be low-agency, 0 value-add to the company

@GergelyOrosz As Vercel has employees in Germany, I doubt it's the regulations in Spain, which made them close down there.

@GergelyOrosz Are you sure it is not because we have serious job protection laws? Without any more context on why they cannot hire in Spain it's what I think.

@GergelyOrosz This is exactly what we solve for @GergelyOrosz, helping companies identify what the best operating model is in each country (legal entity, EOR, contractor): https://wfa.team/

@GergelyOrosz A lot of people seem not to understand this, and during the COVID all-remote era were irritated they couldn't live out their dreams of moving to a random country that their company has no presence in.

@GergelyOrosz All big tech companies have a base in Spain, the regulations are the same as anywhere else in Europe. Skill issue